Messages / Beyond the Surface
Breaking Barriers: Moving Into New Territory
Watching the seat is not sitting in it. On breakthrough people, good craziness, and how the prophetic and the apostolic work together.
Topics: New seasons · Leadership · Purpose and vision
Lines to remember
Key lines
There's a group that needs to be led, but there's also a group that he wants to use, an apostolic group, a pioneering group.
It looks like something you can't achieve on your own.
Same geographic location, but he was now going back as a deliverer and a confronter to an oppressive system.
You were learning, but you've never actually sat in that seat.
An excellent rep cannot supervise.
It requires people with a certain type of good craziness.
There are prophetic signposts that we only encounter after we've journeyed a certain distance.
Trusting in the goodness of God, not your own goodness. In the faithfulness of God, not your own faithfulness.
Inside this message
What he covers
- Those who break open and those who wait
- What the new frontier looks like
- Moses: same Egypt, new frontier
- Joshua: watching the seat is not sitting in it
- Grapes and giants
- Good craziness
- Prepared before, and prepared along the way
- By faith, not by your own goodness
- The prophetic is a probe; the apostolic builds
- The new territory is not the end goal
- Team ministry and networking
- Glory to glory has stages
- Your company matters
- Eagles and chickens
Scripture
Passages in this message
Read the full message
Cleaned from the live recording. Lightly edited for reading.
*Anchor scripture read by the host: "The one who breaks open will come up before them; they will break out, pass through the gate, and go out by it; their king will pass before them, with the Lord at their head" (Micah 2:13).*
Those who break open and those who wait
I'm just gathering my thoughts. The Lord is the one who goes before us. But what I love is that the Bible says he will dwell in us and walk in us (2 Corinthians 6:16). For some of us, it's not just that God is going before us. Some people have gone forth with the Lord, with the Lord walking in them.
In this whole season we're in, breaking barriers, entering new territories, this is so prophetic. The one who breaks open will come up before them. He breaks open, he makes a way. But he works through people. There's always a group of people he leads, or works through, to lead the path forward. He uses them like a beachhead, an expeditionary group that goes before.
So in this season there are two types of people I'm seeing from this scripture. Those the Lord is living in, walking in, and leading forward to open the breach. And those who are waiting for the breach to be opened, waiting for a path to be made clear. There's a group that needs to be led. But there's also a group he wants to use, an apostolic group, a pioneering group, that he wants to work through, walk in, live in and express himself through as he breaks forth.
*The host adds that God is using this generation to open gateways into the kingdom through preaching the gospel. Question: what does a new frontier look like? Is it a change in your environment or a shift in your spiritual atmosphere? Apostle lets the Prophet speak first: there are layers, people who need to be ushered in and people with capacity to breach the gate; because we are one with Christ, the way, the truth and the life, people find the way through us.*
What the new frontier looks like
What does the new frontier look like? It looks like something you can't achieve on your own. It looks like something that requires faith and a level of risk. For each person it's different. For each person, it's a place or a dimension God is calling us to.
With Abraham, God instructed him to leave Mesopotamia, to leave his father's house, and go to a place he would show him. The Bible says he was looking for a city whose builder and maker is God (Hebrews 11:8-10). When God called him to leave, not knowing where he was going, that was a new frontier for him. A place he had never gone before.
I don't know if you love the Star Trek movies. Star Wars too, but more Star Trek. They're always going to different planets, different galaxies, different habitats. They encounter something unfamiliar and it takes time for them to navigate it. The atmosphere may be different, the inhabitants may be different, the challenges different from before.
So when God leads us out, there is a desired destination for each person's life. God has planned a desired path for you, and he wants to get us there. Many times when we're young, God speaks to us prophetically and shows us a glimmer, a picture of his end destination. But for us to get there, there will be challenges he did not mention to us.
Moses: same Egypt, new frontier
Take Moses. Moses had to go back to Egypt. He grew up in Egypt, in the palace, in wealth, luxury, influence, power, the best education. Then God took him into the wilderness. That was a new frontier for him. It was a season of training, a season of detoxifying him.
When he was detoxified and prepared, God sent him back to Egypt. But he was going back to a new Egypt. Same geographic location, but he was going back as a deliverer and a confronter of an oppressive system. It was new in the fact that even though it was the same physical place, the dimension of his service and his ministry had changed.
When he stepped into Egypt this time, he wasn't stepping in as one with political connections, political influence, power and wealth. He was stepping into Egypt as one who confronts the gods of that nation, the principalities and powers, and the attendants of those altars and deities. He had grown up in Egypt. He understood some physical things, some spiritual things. But now God was taking him back as the servant and mouthpiece of the great I AM (Exodus 3:14). Something he had never experienced before. So it was all new for him.
Joshua: watching the seat is not sitting in it
With Joshua, the successor, going into the promised land was a new frontier. All the time he was serving the Lord as minister to Moses, he knew they were going to a land flowing with milk and honey. But when Moses died, this was a new frontier. Someone was leading me. He told me where we were going. But now the Lord comes and says, my servant is dead (Joshua 1:2). You need to step up into this leadership position. You were watching it, observing it, learning. But you have never actually sat in that seat.
You could be in an organization as an employee, watching your supervisor. You can be a supervisor sitting in meetings with your managers. But when it's time for you to act, when you're elevated to that position, it's a new frontier. It takes a different mindset.
I remember when I was first promoted to supervisor in the organization I worked with. I came to the realization that even though I was an excellent employee, an excellent rep cannot supervise people. You need a supervisor mentality. Because when things were not going right, the first thing that came to my mind was, I know how to do the work, I can do it very well, I don't have to depend on you, I can just go and do it. Then I realized that if I go and do it, I'm abdicating my role, my office, and stepping down into something I was promoted out of. I cannot do both at the same time. Either I learn how to supervise, how to delegate responsibilities, how to train people to be excellent workers like myself and get them to do the job, or I step out of my elevated place and go back down.
The apostles understood this in Acts chapter 6, when there was murmuring over the widows. They said, choose faithful men from among yourselves. Why ask them to choose? Because they said it is not right for us to leave the word of God to serve tables, to leave our office to do this (Acts 6:1-4).
So with each one of us, when God starts to take us somewhere, the new frontier looks different. Like God said to Joshua, be strong and courageous (Joshua 1:6-9). When you see the new frontier, it will require you to develop strength, or to access the strength of God, and a level of courageous faith that will help you step into it.
Grapes and giants
I'll stop after this. When Moses sent out the twelve spies, they had heard they were going into a land flowing with milk and honey. When they went out there, they saw the grapes. The bunches were big. But just as the fruit was large, so were the giants. Ten came back and said, we were like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight (Numbers 13:23-33). Two said, no, they are bread for us (Numbers 14:9). They're like biscuits to us. That's when you know it's a new frontier: when you see where God is taking you and where he wants you to go.
Good craziness
When you're going to space, and they're planning now for more lunar landings and planetary habitats, it requires a certain level of resources. And it requires people with a certain type of good craziness. Objective, critical craziness. What I mean is you need a certain level of audacity and tenacity, a God-given faith that you can accomplish it. You can get there. You can do what nobody else has done before.
Because many times, where God is taking us, people shrink back. The enemy asks, what are you trying to do? People ask you what you're trying to do. Trying to show you're more powerful than others, holier than others, greater than others? Because that's how it looks. And if you don't allow God to work on your mind, you will shrink back.
Where you're going, only a few think like that, audacious enough to say, I'm going to accomplish it. I'm going to scale this. I'm going to do something I never saw my pastor do. God called you into a realm, and you've never seen an apostle or a pastor walk in that dimension, and even your own mind will say, are you crazy? What are you trying to do? But you say, no, the Lord has shown me this. He's called me to do this. Even though I don't grasp everything fully as yet, I'm headed somewhere. So you start to align every resource in your life, like an arrow, like a rocket, to reach a certain target, a certain destination.
*The Prophet mentions a song about having the resources to do what God says. The host adds that your resources may not look like everyone else's: David had a sling and five stones and came in the name of the Lord (1 Samuel 17:40-45); Paul and Silas's resource in prison was worship (Acts 16:25-26). She asks: does God prepare us beforehand to enter new frontiers, or do we have to adjust ourselves?*
Prepared before, and prepared along the way
Interesting question. I like the question. I would say it's twofold. One, we were prepared for it before we were placed on the earth. He already planned it for us. But then, in time, the journey has different stages, and during those stages he prepares us.
**
My apologies. I just got a reminder of an important platform I needed to be part of today, in another time zone. Anyhow, God is faithful.
I was in Pakistan recently, and I started to eat less and less and less, because I understood a change was occurring inside of me. I was being led into a fast. There are seasons like that, when I know God is taking me into a fast. I have many fasts that I do, and I do them by faith. But there are some where I know actual physical things inside me start to change. And when you understand that, you determine: I need to obey God and be faithful to him and not let anything deter me.
There are also times when I have encounters, in dreams or in other ways, and I know these experiences are not a one-time thing. They are there to take me somewhere. It's like a sign. You're on the road driving and you reach a street sign pointing in a particular direction, and you know you need to turn that way. Sometimes there are signposts in our life, prophetic signposts, that we only encounter after we've journeyed a certain distance. You will never see that signpost if you stay at this juncture. You have to journey with God. You have to build capacity. You have to elevate yourself. You have to be obedient to the first instructions the Lord gave you. And when you reach a certain place, then you know where you need to go after. So we do have those seasons, but you only get there from one level of obedience to another.
*The Prophet connects this to "before I formed you in the belly I knew you" (Jeremiah 1:5) and Jesus increasing in wisdom and stature and in favour with God and man (Luke 2:52).*
Yes. Not only God, but also man. Very important. For example, this other platform I'm on: I got through that door because of somebody's goodwill. Somebody who had entered that room before invited me into the room. So you grow in favour with God, but that's how the system works. As you build capacity in the spirit, there's connection in the physical. It starts there. So I hope I answered your question. It's twofold. And this comes back to sensitivity.
*Question: how do we move into the new territory when we cannot see the whole path ahead? The Prophet speaks about Nicodemus's question on being born again and how Christ gives us his Spirit and nature so we grow into the eternal realm piece by piece.*
By faith, not by your own goodness
We walk by faith and not by sight (2 Corinthians 5:7). The just shall live by faith (Habakkuk 2:4). When we read Hebrews 11, what we call the hall of faith, where they talk about the exploits of different people, we realize they all accomplished what they did by faith. They believed the one who promised.
God raised up Moses to be a deliverer. He made some mistakes. He was the meekest man on the face of the earth (Numbers 12:3), but he still had his issues. You know, sometimes I wonder if Moses was joking when he wrote that. God hid his body (Deuteronomy 34:6). We read in Jude of Satan and Michael contending over the body (Jude 9). He had issues. That's what prevented him from going into the promised land. Anger (Numbers 20:10-12).
Joshua had issues. That's what caused the Gibeonites to trick him (Joshua 9). It made me remember one of my sons. Overconfidence.
Abraham had issues. Abraham lied when they went to Egypt and said Sarah was his sister, because he was afraid (Genesis 12:11-13). The same thing passed down to his son. His son did the same thing (Genesis 26:7). Family pattern.
What I'm trying to get at is that when God shows you a certain thing, even the issues inside of you come up and say, this is not you. That prophetic word isn't really true. You're not all that good. You've got some problems. You just did the thing yesterday, and now you're coming for breakfast? Are you sure the thing is good?
So how do you get there? By faith. You get there by understanding and trusting in the goodness of God. Not your own goodness. In the faithfulness of God, not your own faithfulness. Someone said, because he has been faithful, I have faith. The Bible says we love him because he first loved us (1 John 4:19). When we understand these things, we love him, we serve him, we humble ourselves before him. Because this plan is so big. Big shouldn't even be the word. Extraterrestrial. We understand it's not by might nor by power, but by the Spirit of God (Zechariah 4:6).
We understand God in his sovereignty knows the end from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10). The Alpha and the Omega (Revelation 22:13). If he says this thing, he must know what he's talking about. And I believe that in this new frontier, this place I've never gone before, he's able to get me there, even though I see so many limitations in myself.
So I start to prepare myself. I start to align my resources, my education, how I study, the things I do, to get me to where he planned. I know I don't have everything it takes. But what I can do, I do. What I'm saying is he expects me to do what is in my capacity. For what is outside my capacity, I trust him for the resource, the download or the grace to accomplish it. So when I look at the end, even though I don't see how I can really get there, I know the one who has gone before me is living inside of me, and he knows the path. He has gone there before and given me a glimpse.
The prophetic is a probe; the apostolic builds
That's what the prophetic is like. The prophetic is like a probe, like a satellite sent out into the distance to take snapshots of planets and test the atmosphere. Then you get a picture of what's out there and what's possible. Then the apostolic, with that snapshot, starts to build the structure, the thing that is necessary to go there.
So the prophetic tells you to see something there: this is what God has planned for you. Apostolic people build you, and build a system to get you from here to there.
So when God shows you something and you don't really know how you're going to get there, you need apostolic people. You need to find your place, connected to apostolic people. People who know how to build according to the pattern. Moses built according to pattern. Everything Moses built was what he had seen. The original is in heaven, and he built replicas on earth (Exodus 25:40; Hebrews 8:5).
Apostolic people know how to build things, and how to build you, to get you from just the vision, the photos and samples you've seen of the future, to actually getting there. How to prepare you, teach you, take you through the training the Holy Ghost has planned for you.
If you're going to the moon or to Mars, where gravity is different and the oxygen level is different, you must find yourself in an environment on earth that can replicate that. So God will either connect you with people or direct you to an assembly where you can go through that training. So the leader can say to you, yes, you're doing good. When this happens, do this. If you feel you're going under and not getting enough oxygen, do this. They've passed that way before. So when you reach the real thing in ministry, wherever God takes you, you've already had those experiences. You'll have some new ones. The Holy Ghost will help you figure those out there and then. But you've had some that helped prepare you for that new level.
*The Prophet shares that he has been seeing "equipping and building" and the need for heavenly systems, since the kingdom comes on earth as it is in heaven; he says Apostle is one of the few he has heard describe the prophetic as a probe. The host asks: is the new territory the end goal, or can we go further?*
The new territory is not the end goal
The new territory is not the end goal. God may give you glimpses of other dimensions. But sometimes he only gives you a glimpse. That's where we need to qualify it.
Excuse us for pressing, but this has been my focus since we started this new topic, Ready, Set, Go: a spacecraft breaking through the gravitational pull, breaking through barriers, headed to a predetermined location or position in the ionosphere. You'll need to tune in next week and to our Sunday services, because they're all connected.
For a collective group, it may be the end goal for this season, this timestamp. How should I put it? NASA is working to go back to the moon, then to Mars. But for each season or period there's an end goal. The first thing is to establish a presence on the south side of the moon. That's the end goal for the next two years. Then there's another end goal to take us further, to Mars.
But some things need to be done before that. They need to be able to do space refuelling, transferring the necessary fuel from one spacecraft to another at a checkpoint. So they need to build refuelling points in space. So the end goal within the next year is developing the system for interplanetary refuelling. Then in the next five years there may be another end goal. When that's established, we'll send machinery, the Optimus bots, Tesla's robots, to start to build certain things out on Mars. All of these things are working concurrently to take us there.
Team ministry and networking
I can go so many places with this, but we only have three minutes. Let me do a little segue. This is where networking is important and team ministry is important. Because even though there's a big picture to reach a certain dimension, God may give you the creativity and grace to design the spacecraft. God may give someone else the ability to work on the bots. They need specific training. They need to know how to set up these things, different programming, different simulations. These are all big things happening in different spheres at the same time, and they need people with bold vision to lead them. And if these different people don't fulfil their part, they hinder it collectively.
So to get to the new frontier, you're not an island by yourself. You can't do it by yourself. You need somebody who knows the financial mechanics of these things, because it needs money, resources to finance it. You need somebody on the legal side, because these things require complex legal structures. And procurement and distribution.
So is that the farthest you can go? No. But for each one of us there's a timestamp. That's what we call a season. And we have launch windows. That's what we call kairos. If you miss that launch window, you have to wait. The climate needs to be right. You need to work with other agencies to have a no-fly zone for all the aircraft at that time. Everything needs to be right for you to launch at that time. And if they can't launch in that window, they have to look for another launch window, another gate.
*The Prophet brings up "from glory to glory" (2 Corinthians 3:18).*
Glory to glory has stages
That's what I'm trying to get to. We talk about different frontiers, different dimensions. You can't get to glory three from glory one. Some people want to reach glory ten, but they never pass glory six. There are lessons, there are mechanics at each stage that we need to learn. Why do we need to learn them? Because if we don't, we won't be sustained at the new level. You can get there, but because you haven't learned the mechanics of that order, you can be lost there or fall out of it.
*The Prophet reflects that as we travel deeper into the eternal God we keep encountering new frontiers.*
Your company matters
Time is up. I know some of the things we've dealt with this morning, you'll need to wrap your head around. The reason we're doing this is because there are mechanics of the prophetic and the apostolic we need to know. If you don't know them, you won't progress to the next stage, the next season, the next realm or dimension of your growth, the next level of glory. These are things I've discovered. Some I learned the hard way.
This is why where you fellowship and the networks you're part of are important. People who don't have certain aspirations or visions, who have never accomplished certain things, will not be able to get you to certain places.
I remember many times in my stage of growth prophetically, I'd have encounters, I'd have dreams, and I was afraid to talk about them. Because when you start to say even a little, people shut you down. You used to hear things like, you need to focus on the word of the Lord, you need to concentrate on the word of the Lord. And I'm just talking about miracles, and every time I read the word I'm seeing miracles. When you have certain prophetic encounters and you start to share them, people shut you down, or they sidestep it and ignore it altogether.
So the prophetic had become a frustration, because there was no one there to help guide me along. No one, as it seemed, who had broken through to the next dimension, the next realm, the next level of glory, who was willing to share the mechanics of getting from one place to another. Who would share the blueprint, the things they learned and discovered. Some people gatekeep.
So growing up, the prophetic had become frustrating. But in the last few years, as I prayed and asked about these things, the Lord connected me with people. When he connected me with them, I felt like we were swimming in the same ocean, flying in the same sky. This is my company.
Eagles and chickens
Eagles fly. First you were with chickens. The only place they fly is maybe up in a tree, and walk around in the neighbour's yard. If you try to accomplish anything higher than that, they tell you, no, you need to concentrate on the word. You fly and you fall, oh shoot. But then you find a few who say, wow, look up there. That's where you need to be. So beautiful, the wings soaring in the sky. You see how they just open the wings and soar effortlessly. You don't have to flap and drop and bang your head. That's how you're supposed to be, effortlessly soaring.
That's why you need to make sure the people in your group are heading to the same destination, the same vision. If all they want to do is fly from here to there and walk around, and they're content with that, we lay eggs and they give us food, that's all you're going to accomplish in life. You are born greater. You're watching me: you are born greater.
Greater works than these you will do (John 14:12). Sometime I'll go into that, because many people don't have the revelation of it and they downplay it. An eagle says to you, greater than this you will do, and you're walking around like a chicken saying he wasn't really talking about flying so high, it's just metaphoric, my wings can't do that, and you walk around picking. They're trying to defend Jesus, as though the creator of all the earth didn't know the one he created.
He said you shall mount up with wings like eagles (Isaiah 40:31). He never said you'll run around like chickens and flap and try really hard in life just to reach this height. You will mount up with wings like eagles. There's a dimension for you to flow in, to occupy, to be your normal space. But you need to learn how to break through.
Fear stops many people from flying too high. What if I fall? I hear that a lot when you talk to people about the supernatural. You know what happened to Jimmy Swaggart? You know what happened to this person? Look how far they fell. At least they went far. You're just flopping around on the fowl pen roof and falling off the fowl pen roof, telling people, be careful how high you aim. And you're watching those eagles soaring in the sky and saying, thank God I'm only up to here, because if they fall from there, they're dead. That's why I'm staying down here. That's how the enemy traps people, with what sounds like godly wisdom. But you will not be one.
You'll mount up with wings like eagles. You will run and not be weary. You'll walk and not faint (Isaiah 40:31). There is a supernatural speed, a supernatural strength hitting your life, hitting your spirit, as you hear these words.
*Host closes with a declaration over new territories.*
Keep going
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